I’m Pro-Choice, Not Pro-Abortion

Ok.  I am confused.

Why are women’s reproductive rights suddenly at the center of national debate this election year?

I mean, it’s been over 40 years since all this has been established, yes?

Forgive me, I wasn’t born yet when the Roe vs Wade verdict came down, and I wasn’t around when women began having access to contraceptives that didn’t involve going without sex.

But thanks to the Republicans vying for the presidential candidacy, suddenly abortion laws and women’s health rights are being blazoned all over the media.

And that means it’s been all over social media too.

My facebook has blown up with conservative “friends” blasting all kinds of videos and photos and horribly skewed “facts” and Bible verses about not killing babies.

Most of this propaganda is using the age-old scare tactic of “If you’re not with us, you’re against us.”

My students are reading The Crucible right now and we have been discussing this idea in relation to the Salem witch trials, but we have also been comparing it to more contemporary issues.

Abortion is one of the hottest issues right now.

People tend to be passionate about anything that involves claims of “killing babies.”

Just like the people on Facebook, many of my students asked the question, “so you would kill a baby?”

Wait.

No.

That is not what being “Pro-Choice” is.

But that is what people think. If you are Pro-Life, you want zero abortions.  If you are Pro-Choice, you want everyone to have abortions.

You’re either with us, or against us.

There is no gray area.

But there is.

Being Pro-Choice recognizes that.

Roe vs Wade recognized that.  Thirty-nine damn years ago.

I’ve gone through a LOT to have the two boys I have now.  Including two miscarriages and issues getting and staying pregnant.

I feel pretty confident saying I would never have an abortion that wasn’t medically necessary for my survival.

But it’s not up to me to tell YOU what you should be able to do.

And guess what?  It’s not up to you to tell me that if I was going to DIE due to pregnancy, I shouldn’t be able to choose to live…and get rid of the pregnancy.  You wouldn’t argue with me getting rid of a cyst or tumor, would you?  If a pregnancy is going to take my life away and leave my husband and sons without me, why wouldn’t I get rid of that too?

I wish no one had to make the decision to have an abortion.

I wish unplanned pregnancies and dangerous pregnancies and complications didn’t ever happen.

I wish rape and incest didn’t happen.

I wish all babies conceived grew into healthy babies with no abnormalities or severe genetic disorders.

But they do.

And shouldn’t people have the choice of how they want to deal with those situations?

Didn’t we already decide more than five years before I was even born that YES, women SHOULD have that choice?

So why…WHY…is this back up for debate?

How about we concentrate on getting people working again…so that they can feed the children they have?

_______________

Thanks to the Columbus Dispatch for the editorial cartoon.


Comments

  1. This is the GOP strategy: Confuse and deflect from the REAL, truly important issues. The same people who are so passionate about saving the lives of the unborn, often couldn’t care less about them once they arrive, especially if they need public assistance. This is a well written piece that puts the issue BACK into perspective.

    • Daryl Fulp says

      I am pro-life. I served as a foster parent for 13 years, caring for 23 children over that time period. I have adopted five children. I now work in a ministry that works with low-income families who have children with special needs by providing assistance. Please keep you bigoted stereotypes to yourself.

    • scragsma says

      On what basis do you assert that those who care about the unborn “couldn’t care less about them once they arrive”?? That’s nonsense.

  2. Wonderful post Katie!

  3. well said. women’s reproductive rights have no place in politics as far as i’m concerned, they are just put there to distract us from the things that we really should be concentrating on.

  4. Excellent post! I work for a state NARAL affiliate and I can tell you it is hard to make people understand the difference between being pro-choice and pro-life. It makes me crazy to think that this year’s election will be fought over a woman’s ability to control the size and timing of her family! We are still in a recession and people are still looking for work. We need to DEMAND that politicians talk about the issues that are most important right now and STOP trying to take away access to contraceptives and family planning.

  5. I know someone who had an abortion just because she just bought a new townhome and she said it wouldn’t be baby friendly. Her other reason was because she works as a stewardess on test flights of private jets and it would take away from the fun to travel around the world. She replaced her baby with a pug which she cried over when she was found with a tumor. I am not against abortion for medical reasons, but as a way of birth control and to keep it so you can have a wonderful life of travel and such. That is plain wrong.

  6. Daryl Fulp says

    The pro-abortion crowd has done an effective job in the PR department of making the argument about choice. Therefore, if I am opposed to abortion I am opposed to the right to choose. Clever strategy that has been very effective for their camp. However, it is a complete misnomer. It is not, nor has it ever been about choice. I do not have the right to infringe upon the rights of another person to live if they bother me. You would never see a murderer in court arguing that the court was trying to take away their right to choose to kill another person. The issue is, and always has been, about life. Is that fetus a life? If it is, the right to choose to kill him/her is off the table. The argument of the pro-abortion crowd is that it is just a part of the woman’s body. That is ludicrous in light of genetics and medical science that tells us that the child has his/her own unique DNA that differentiates itself from every part of the woman’s body. We know he/she has their own blood supply/type, unique attributes and fingerprints. It is a human life, not a blob of tissue, and no one should have the right to choose to kill it. So, no, you are not pro-choice, you are pro-abortion, and I will not call you anything else.

  7. I think you have stated this well. I always find myself trying to explain that pro-choice doesn’t mean we want everyone to have an abortion. It would be wonderful if abortions were not necessary but I will always fight for the choice.

  8. Very nicely written. I’ve always struggled for a way to say that being pro-choice doesn’t mean that you are pro-abortion. While abortion is not the right choice for me personally, not everyone shares that belief. People should have the freedom to make the choice of what they want to do as an individual. They should not be forced into something because of what I believe. Freedom of choice is a huge part of this country.

  9. Katie,

    Abortion is an awful topic. Everyone has been hurt by it. Everyone has had one or knows someone who has. And the media/primary hysterics does not help one bit.

    When I was young, I thought I was pro-abortion until I took a simple 10-question test. Turns out I was not. Over the years, I have read so much and come to believe in the sanctity of life. As hard as that can be.

    Rape and incest are horrible, but not valid arguments for abortion. Those babies did nothing wrong. And they have a right to live.

    Roe v Wade? Every actually read about it? Then do so. You will be surprised.

    Do you really and truly support abortion? Then you have to believe that your Mom had the right to abort you. Because you were a girl. Or a boy. Or, like me, deformed.

    Your great grandma had the right to abort your grandma. So your mom didn’t happen. Or you. Or your children. Forever and ever. The line would have been broken, The sadness immense.

    Support abortion? Then you have to somehow ignore or justify this most chilling of facts: 50 million babies have been aborted since Roe v Wade in America alone. 50 million. How many would have grown up to be Martin Luther King or Shakespeare or Jonas Salk or Steve Jobs or…?

    I know, I know, Today we care more about personal choice than community. Than redemptive suffering. Than life itself. But we were taught to believe this by relentless consumer marketing campaigns designed to make other people money, not to make us happy. Not for long, anyway.

    I just think that’s wrong.

    I judge no one on abortion. I don’t want them to judge me. But please, please, please let’s stop aborting babies.

    They have done nothing wrong.

    And there is so much help available to women in need.

    SO MUCH HELP!

    Just ask if you need it.

    Peace be with you.

    • I do agree it’s a yucky topic. I really hate abortion. I do. And I know people do it for absolutely the wrong reason. It really does make me sick.

      But I can’t make a sweeping statement that says all abortion all the time is wrong. I can’t.

      Because I don’t think it is.

      I DO think my mom had the right to abort me. Or my brothers. ESPECIALLY if we were going to make her die because we were in her uterus.

      The 50 million “babies” that were aborted? Is a totally different topic. Because of them, others lived. The world WOULD be different if they would be here. Others would not be here. To me, that argument…of “think of what could have been” just doesn’t hold water.

      For some of them, their mother might not be here. Or their siblings. Or some of the geniuses we DO have.

      We can’t suppose about what COULD have been. We can only live in what IS.

      Like I said in my post, I wish abortions DIDN’T have to be a thing. But I do believe they do.

    • I just want to be clear about this part of your comment:

      “Rape and incest are horrible, but not valid arguments for abortion. Those babies did nothing wrong. And they have a right to live.”

      Are you saying that if a 13 year-old girl is raped by her father, she should be denied access to abortion? You are saying that “saving” one child, but sacrificing another is okay in that argument.

      I would suggest you pause and really think through that comment.

  10. Stephanie says

    You wonder why this is back up for debate? What of those who want to make it (and/or have made it) required from our taxes to fund abortions? That may not be telling me what to do with my baby, but it’s telling me what will be done with my money, to fund something I am 1,000% opposed to.
    It is hard, too, to read things like “get rid of a pregnancy” as if it’s a cyst or tumor. No matter what Roe or Wade said so long ago, that’s a tiny human being that they’re “getting rid of.” I watched in absolute awe as the ultrasound tech showed me my baby in there kicking and squirming. Didn’t you with your kids? It bears repeating: it’s a human being. One who will always be worth fighting for, even if its mommy doesn’t realize its value quite yet.

    • Just so you are aware, tax dollars are not used to fund abortions except in cases of rape, incest, or life of the woman.

      Whose place is it to judge the women who choose abortion? How is anyone else to know the details of a woman’s life if abortion is something she chooses for herself? You want to stop abortions?? Keep contraceptives accessible to ALL in need of them. Teach your children to respect themselves and each other, and teach them about sex and how to prevent pregnancy until they are ready to be a parent. If we educate the population on preventing pregnancy and make contraceptives accessible the need for abortion will decrease significantly.

      • Stephanie says

        As someone mentioned above, rape and incest are absolutely horrible, but are never, ever the baby’s fault. I learned recently about another aunt I never knew, and as the story unfolded we found out it was because my great grandfather molested his daughter, my grandmother, when she was young. She gave birth and gave the baby up for adoption. What that man did was beyond wrong, but I am pretty darn sure that the woman who was conceived in that relationship is glad she wasn’t killed for it. She has lived a nice, long life.
        Similar to your frustration about people’s assumption concerning Pro-Choicers, I find it silly to assume that because I am against abortion, I hate or judge people who get them. I don’t know the details of their circumstances; but have you ever heard the stories of post-abortion effects? Beforehand it’s all a “great choice” and “convenient” and “the right thing for them right now” but afterward, they face guilt, remorse, depression. Take a few minutes to read or hear about what they go through afterward. It’s not worth it.
        And the absolute prevention for pregnancy, STDs, and any other sexual issues? Abstinence. People can argue all they want that “we can’t expect kids to wait to have sex, or to have it with only one person all their lives” but you know what? It works, and it’s possible. Tell me something that works better and I’ll consider telling kids about it.

      • Brooklyn Dame says

        Exactly, Hannah. That bit of spin is used to get taxpayers up in arms thinking that their dollars are being used to “kill babies”. It’s just not the case.

        And I agree; it’s sheer hypocrisy to judge a woman for terminating a pregnancy on the one hand — and fight tooth and nail to prevent her from access to birth control methods on the other. It’s also ridiculous to try to force a woman to have a child and then demand that funding is cut for programmes that may support that child if the woman is in financial dire straits.

        Get it together already! And those who throw the Bible in the face of women who terminate pregnancies need to realise that not everyone believes in the same things they do and, if anything, THEY create ‘hell on earth’ for the women who are simply trying to live their lives and do the best they can under extremely difficult circumstances.

  11. I couldn’t agree more with you. “How about we concentrate on getting people working again…so that they can feed the children they have.” Amen to that!!

  12. Here’s the way I see it: I support the idea that everyone has the right to their stance. Everyone has the right to CHOOSE to be pro-life or pro-choice. Thus – I’m pro-choice 🙂

  13. Pro-life is only pro-unborn because until minimum 23/24 weeks, this belief system makes women incubators. It’s not even about when life begins. It’s about whose life counts more. And it’s much easier to love and support an unborn child than a ‘sinning’ woman. And the idea that God chooses one over the other is preposterous.
    That being said, I would love to live in a world where women didn’t feel like they needed to face or make this choice, and I’d work with anyone pro-life or pro-choice, to get there.

  14. There’s a phrase from the Divine Comedy that says something like the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of great moral crisis. Pro-choice is just a feel-good term for pro-abortion. Honestly, I find it disingenuous and a form of denial for what people know is wrong.

  15. “And shouldn’t people have the choice of how they want to deal with those situations?”…Not if it involves taking the life of another human being. We don’t let people “deal with those situations” by killing children after they are born, so what makes you think it is okay to “deal with those situations” by killing their child before they are born?

  16. What a well written post. I am pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Abortion is a very sensitive issue and seems to polarize many people. But I would dare to say that the women who get abortions are not using it as a “way to get out of pregnancy” but rather are making the very difficult choice to terminate a pregnancy based on her individualized circumstances. I believe that having an abortion is emotional, especially for the woman who makes that difficult choice. BUT IT IS HER CHOICE TO MAKE. I am at a loss as to why very basic rights of women making choices concerning their own bodies and futures is being called into question. I agree that these are all issues settled years ago, and the resurgence of campaigns seeking to deny women basic rights to their own bodies is alarming. Thank you for sharing this post and reminding everyone that even though this issue is polarizing, the grey area is where you will find the heart of the issue, which is just women making choices concerning their own bodies and futures.

  17. D Bunker Monquis says

    Live and let die, the “choice” position stated in other words, now means you must pay the abortionists who pay off POTUS-B.O. You participate in the slayings by not doing all you can to end them.
    God says Do no murders. Your hands are bloodied today by the institution of your elected government acting in your name. You’re up to your elbows in innocent blood before God our Creator and righteous Ruler. Your lack of caring and action to rescue the perishing is read on your heart as murder as sure as if you knifed the babies yourself.

    In our Bible, God promises to kill nations that “shed innocent blood.”

    As you consent to the systematic killing of the most innocent and dependent of Americans, in the very sanctuary crafted by God– the mother’s womb–even so, you are guilty and can ask no sanctuary, as you have said in your heart, Let “the least of these among us” fend for themselves; “go die”, in other words.

    Forty years has great significance in Bible timing. Our time will be up in January. If God drops his fist, you will find no place to hide with any of your “wanted” children. The rain falls on the just and the unjust in such cases. Do consider your ways.

    • Eric Storch says

      You are falsely assuming that everyone is following the teachings of your god. I assume since you mention the Bible that you are a Christian. Christians only make up about one third of the earth’s population. You can not lump the remaining two thirds into your belief system.

      • Brooklyn Dame says

        EXACTLY. I don’t want anyone’s belief in an invisible means of support foisted on me. Let me have the right to choose what I wish to believe in.

  18. I really wish that it wasn’t called “Pro-Life” and that it was called Anti-Choice, because I am not anti-life. I am for life. But I am also for being in control of my own life. Having the ability to make a choice for myself, especially such a personal one. Currently dealing with infertility, I agree, I would likely never have an abortion. But that doesn’t give me the right to decide the same for everyone else. Well said, Katie.

    • D Bunker Monquis says

      Yes, control your own life and take no one else’s. Once you cross that line, it is everybody’s business, the reason for which governments were first established.
      They have, until this present time, stood guard between those threatened and their attackers, especially to defend the weaker from the strong.
      Abortion killing is a total reversal of our heritage in Western law with everyone to be treated as equals and welcomed to the table as with intrinsic value not based on wealth or wit or any contribution to us other than the ennoblement of both keeping the covenant of Do no murder. It’s a morality thing, and many today wouldn’t understand it.

      • Eric Storch says

        I think you really need to take a closer look at our “heritage in Western law” and all the hypocrisy that it contains.

  19. once you don’t rely on the idea that life is a gift of god and once you think of human beings as free individuals it is clear that abortion is a personal choice, I personally think that it should be discussed within the couple so for both to express their opinions, but final decision is up to her…

  20. Mark Pagliarini says

    Personally, I am Pro-Choice. Its the woman’s body therefore its her decision. She has to deal with the decision mentally and physically. Few years ago my girlfriend at the time became pregnant and made the decision not to keep it. I, at first wanted to her to have it but she thought that we weren’t ready. I was torn up about it but what was I to do? What control do I actually have? None.

  21. Stephanie says

    Here is my thought: we use the heart beating to determine death. If the heart stops then life has ended. Why do we not do the same to determine the beginning of life? If the heart has started beating life has begun. Therefore, abortion would be ending that life and a criminal act.

    That is how I see it. The heart starting signifies the beginning of life, and it not beating signifies death.

    I don’t think a woman has the right to decide to take a life {barring circumstances such as rape, incest, or her life}. It becomes even trickier if you consider a father’s rights {ie. he wants the child & is willing to raise it alone so doesn’t want abortion, but if he doesn’t want the child & mom does he has to pay child support}.

    I give you a lot of credit for writing this, because let’s be real, abortion/contraceptives/sex education are touchy, touchy topics that can get heated and irrational very quickly.

  22. Being pro-choice does NOT equate to being pro-abortion. Pro-choicers aren’t anti-lifers. Over 50% of the US is pro-choice, and a lot of those people are women who have decided to get pregnant, give birth, and become dedicated, loving mothers. Someone who is pro-choice just means that you believe that an individual ought to be able to decide how their life is going to play out on their own terms. I personally don’t think I could ever go through with getting an abortion unless my life was on the line, however if someone tried to make that call for me I’d be really upset. It’s a huge, life changing decision to have a child, regardless of whether you raise it or give it up for adoption after birth. Pregnancy is difficult and expensive and long and will alter your life forever and not something anyone ought to be forced into. And all of these personal reasons aside: consider the over populated state of the world for just a minute would you? You say to be pro-life to save the children, but at what cost? With the number of us on this planet increasing daily what sort of place are we creating for our children?

    • Daryl Fulp says

      Correction, according to the more recent polls done in 2011, support for abortion is as follows:
      36% want abortion legal in all circumstances
      17% want abortion illegal in all circumstances
      47% want abortion legal in some, but not all circumstances (which include immediate threat to the life of the mother.

      Considerably less that half want abortion legal in all circumstances.

      • And considerably less than a quarter want it illegal entirely so I don’t really get what you’re trying to say. The % who want it entirely illegal are considerably smaller than the % who wants it legal in all or even in some cases. 83% want it legal in some to all while only 17% want it completely gone so I think you just proved my point, thanks.

        • Also if Daryl is your real name, one could be say with a fair amount of confidence you’re of a male biology and therefore will never be pregnant. How can you know what you would do in a situation where you had an unplanned pregnancy if that’s not even a remote option for you?

          • Daryl Fulp says

            Yes, it is my real name. I don’t hide my identity when expressing my opinion. I have never had my spouse or daughter raped and killed, so I cannot express how I would respond in that situation either. But I can also say that if that ever happened it would be wrong for me to hunt down the man and kill him. This has nothing to do with what I would and would not do in that situation. It has to do with right and wrong, life and death. Becoming subjective through personal involvement does not make a position correct. In fact, it often it distorts it, making a person unable to see clearly and objectively. That is why laws exist, to control wrong behavior that is justified by others in their subjectivity. That is why court systems are supposed to be objective, rendering justice impartially and without bias. (Sadly, this often is not the case.) Laws are supposed to be made in the same manner. (Often not the case as well.) Blessings. I wish you well.

        • Daryl Fulp says

          Actually, it does not prove your point. Quite the opposite. You and others on this site seek to make this an issue of choice. You quoted a statistic that seemed to support that position. It was both incorrect and distorted. True, there are very few who would oppose abortion in every circumstance. I would not say that either. In an instance in which the mother’s life is in peril I support her right to choose an abortion to save her life. The far majority of Americans would not say that a mother should die rather than abort. But the statistic of 47% of those who say there should be restrictions on when abortion is legal allow concessions for the threatening of a mother’s life, rape and incest. This means that 83% want to see the majority of abortions eliminated. So, to quote poll statistics saying that the majority of Americans support your position is seriously flawed and distorted.

          • Ok so, for the record, pro-choice is the stance that abortion ought to be available in some to all cases depending on who you’re talking to. Typically there are restrictions on how late in the pregnancy, which I don’t oppose. Point being: pro choice is the stance that abortion ought to be available to women, where pro life is that it should not be available. So, regardless of specific cases, health reasons, etc, if you support a person’s right to end their pregnancy for any/some reasons, you’re giving them that choice, making you in fact pro choice at least to some extent? I don’t want to argue with you, we’re clearly both set in our ways, however your statements are a bit inconsistent. As said in the original post, abortion isn’t something pleasant and in a perfect world there’d be no need for it and I wish we lived in that world, but sadly we do not.

  23. I’m so torn on this issue and I don’t really have much to add to the arguments that hasn’t already been said here.

    But I do want to share a story. Recently I ended up following a woman on twitter who is very opinionated about EVERYTHING. I dont know what ended up connecting us because we have nothing in common and she seems to do little else but complain about her various opinions and how certain people are always mistreated. Anyway, pro-choice is one of her causes. But when you hear her talk about it, it really does sound more of the “pro abortion” label that many of you dont like. It one of her tweets she says that she was Talking to her husband about how she was just so angry about everything: Womens rights, race discrimination, and abortion rights and she actually said: “I think when I get pregnant, I’ll abort out of spite. Just to show all those prolifers that I can” <—- THIS is the kind of person that makes abortion look so EVIL. When you have a health concern or there was rape involved, I can absolutley understand why you would want an abortion. But there are people out there like this that is making the whole issue look bad. She is so determined for her opinion to be the "right" one and to show anyone else who may feel differently that she is tweeting about getting pregnant just to abort it and piss people off. This is one of the reasons that issues like this get so out of control. CRAZY ASS People like her!

    • Brooklyn Dame says

      “Crazy” happens in many issues. That said, this issue is like so many others: we can’t strip away the freedoms of the many just to accommodate the feelings of the few.

  24. First, I don’t believe any MAN should determine what I can, and cannot do with my body. Second, If a politician’s reasons for enacting Anti-Abortion laws are anywhere near “Because the Bible says it’s wrong” they need to be fired for erasing the line that keeps Church and State seperate. Third, Our Constitutional right to Life (our own), Liberty (choices we make for ourselves) and the Persuit of Happiness!!!

    Insurance companies are beginning to not cover the costs of contraceptives for women, but they’ll cover the costs of a vasectomy for a man….sounds a bit hypocritical to me…On a personal note, for 5 years I was denied , by my insurance company, the coverage for a hysterectomy even after being told by 3 doctors that it was medically necessary, 2 years later, I was discovered to have cervical/uterine cancer. I had already had 3 beautiful baby girls, and didn’t want anymore children. Had the insurance cover the hysterectomy 7 years prior, when I first asked about it, it would have saved them THOUSANDS of dollars that got racked up because of the subsequent surgeries and treatments to remove the cancer that I wouldn’t have had if I didn’t have a uterus!!!

    The point is, I’m not telling anyone what they can and cannot do to /with their bodies, so why do these jackasses think they have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do to mine?!?!?!?

    • Daryl Fulp says

      So, according to you, “…If a politician’s reasons for enacting Anti-Abortion laws are anywhere near ‘Because the Bible says it’s wrong” they need to be fired for erasing the line that keeps Church and State seperate (sic).'” Wow. So, I guess only atheists or people who have religious beliefs but don’t live them should be allowed to be in office. According to you, morality should not play a role in either public discourse or decision making. Actually, you don’t mean that, What you actually mean is that only those who have your morality, or lack thereof, should be allowed to play a role. That is both fascinating and disturbing. It is also quite bigoted and narrow-minded.
      You are quite bitter. And that bitterness has caused you to be exactly what you claim to hate in others.
      BTW, insurance companies for the most part have seldom covered the cost of contraceptives. My vasectomy was covered by our insurance. If my wife had chosen to have a sterilization procedure it would have been covered as well. However, they did not cover the cost of the pill for my wife or condoms. Why should they? The uproar now is that Obama is seeking to make that a requirement of all employers’ insurance coverage. Please don’t claim that this issues is about allowing anyone to choose. It is actually about taking choice away.
      Planned Parenthood earlier this year was publicly bemoaning the fact that abortions were down last year. That doesn’t sound like a “pro-choice” position to me. It sounds like a very “pro-abortion” position motivated by profits.
      Meanwhile, you seem concerned about health care issues. Yet your president is withdrawing funding for women’s health programs in Texas that assisted low-income ladies with real health issues such as the one you struggled with. Why? Because they cut off public support of Planned Parenthood. And he claims to care about women’s health. Yeah, right.

  25. So, by telling the lawmakers to follow the law that they enacted (seperation of church and State), I am apparently an athiest with no morals?? Suit yourself, I’m flexible, but the issue here pro-choice. I CHOSE to not abort and give birth to 3 children. Before Roe v. Wade, women were killing themselves unknowingly by having illegal abortions by untrained idiots. Given the vast amounts of information and technology we have today, if Roe v. Wade ever gets overturned, history will repeat itself. And we’ll only have the lawmakers to blame….

    As far as Planned Parenthood goes, up here, in New England, they’ve been under fire for breaking laws reguarding abortions as well as insurance fraud. So the fact that they’re saying the amount of abortions they did last year is down, could be public response to their lousy business practices (which could be why they’ve lost so much federal funding). Maybe women are seeking other medical providers to perform their abortions……just a thought….And shouldn’t the Planned Parenthood organization be a neutral party this whole debate?? Last I knew, the whole premise of “Planned Parenthood” was to offer medical assistance to both women that wanted babies, as well as those that don’t…..

    Insurance companies will cover a vasectomy for a man that’s never had children, but they won’t cover sterilization for a woman that’s never had children, and even if she DOES have children, to get out of covering it, the first question they ask is “What if one of your children dies?” As if you could just replace that child like you would replace a roll of toilet paper??? Give me a break….

    I don’t think it’s fair to blame just the President for all that’s wrong with the healthcare system, because he’s not in this alone…ALL of the elected officials should be to blame for this fiasco, the House, the Senate, and everyone on the local level too.

    • Daryl Fulp says

      Christi, I don’t want to argue with you. First, because I have never seen argument accomplish anything worthwhile online. Second, because you are not my enemy and I am not yours. If I came across as such, I apologize.
      I do want to clarify a couple of things. First, I never called you an atheist or said that you have no morals. I was simply following to the logical conclusion your statement that any elected official who uses the bible as the guide for a decision should be fired. What other conclusion is there except that everyone elected should either be a person of no faith or a person who does not allow their faith to influence them or their decisions?
      Second, I never said that I blame the president for all that is wrong with healthcare. The problems has been building for decades and both parties have either turned the other way while it has happened or made decisions that made it worse. I agree that there is plenty for blame to be spread around. I was simply stating the irony that President Obama would choose to cut funding for an effective women’s health program as a means of lashing out at the state for cutting PP funding. PP can’t do a majority of women’s health services, including mammograms. So he is effectively punishing poor women as a means of forcing his support of an untrustworthy organization that has its own profits as its chief concern.
      I would challenge you on your misunderstand of the phrase “separation of church and state.” You speak as if it is some law that was passed. In reality, it is not a part of our founding documents on any level and has no basis in our constitution. Those were words used by Thomas Jefferson in a letter that he wrote to a friend, and when read it in context was in no way supporting what you are saying. The first amendment of the constitution states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” This was to prevent the government from dictating to anyone the way they must worship or limited the way they worship. It was never intended to keep faith and religion from influencing the government. In fact, when the Declaration of Independence was penned, the authors cited 27 biblical violations of British rule as their motive and guide. Separation of church in state is in no way a part of our nation’s laws. It is simply rhetoric that is thrown around without basis.
      I will leave the discussion now and wish you the best. Blessings on you and your family.

  26. Daryl, I too do not wish to argue. I respect and welcome your opinions, as I feel this is an appropriate way to force change, and from my point of view (forgive me if I’m wrong), that seems to be one thing we can both certainly agree on…..Change must be made somewhere, be it in our elected officials, the healthcare system, or the way insurance companies operate……Hopefully the upcoming elections bring change….

    I’d like to thank you for clarifying a few things for me, as I was raised to believe it was “hammered in stone” so to speak, reguarding Seperation of Church and State, I will certainly use different phrasing in the future. I just feel there are better arguments for this topic (Pro-Life, Pro-Choice) than “The Bible says so” If a politician simply says something along the lines of “it dosen’t seem right to me” or “I’m sure there are other options” I would be more inclined to vote for that person, because they wouldn’t be belittleing, or demeaning other peoples choices, simply stating their own personal opinions.

    I will concede that I can be bitter at times, I suppose that’s because of the life I’ve led, but I fully blame that on myself, and the choices I’ve made in life. I only hold myself accountable, and I have no regrets.

    So again, thank you for the rousing debate. It’s been a pleasure.
    Best wishes to you and yours 🙂

  27. There is a difference between Pro choice and Pro abortion. However i understand that people do not agree because anything against Pro life is Pro abortion. What if everyone said Pro life is the same as Anti choice? I doubt anyone who supports Pro life is against people making choices.

    Also noone said that politicians shouldn’t follow a religion. But when it comes to running the government religion should not influence how they run it. Lets use Christianity for example. If a politician allowed their faith to make discions for them then gays be damned and anyone who isn’t abstinent be damned. Just like at a job you cannot allow your religion to run the way you work.

    I am Pro choice. I would never want to experience an abortion. Honestly I would hate to imagine ever having one. But I support a woman’s right to have one.

    But just so all of you understand. Not all Pro life supporters are wacko religious people. Some of what they say makes sense.

    What makes it difficult to understand both Pro life and Pro choice supporters is some of the people representing them.

  28. The fact that it’s been going on since the 60’s, ought to tell you the issue has not been resolved. Never before that decision and not since that decision has the Supreme Court “legislated” public policy via Law. It cannot be settled because there will never be agreement on precisely when life begins. The human heart begins to beat at 24 days gestation. I could go on and give you FACTS, but you’ve been taught the progressive doctrine. This is again, why there is no agreement. Pro-lifers, in almost ever case, believe abortion should not be used as a “birth control” method. Murder is murder. The exceptions vary by degree, but in most cases include the proverbial incest, rape, and medical emergency contingencies. Many of us believe, as Sen Santorum does, that abortion is not an option in our lives, but that does not mean we cannot understand said exceptions. The primary difference between Pro-life and Pro-Choice is the acknowledgement that the unborn child has rights! Pro-Lifers believe LIFE begins at conception or shortly thereafter. Pro-Choicers believe the mother’s rights supersede the baby’s. I agree! However, when the mother consents to unprotected sex, her Choice is made!

    It was the DEMOCRATS, however, that brought abortion and contraception into this election. George Stephanopoulos, newcaster, broke the ice in one of the Presidential debates by asking Gov Romney his views. It was a set-up, pure and simple! President Obama’s base is crumbling and this and a number of other non-issue-issues are pitched as distractions in the hope the American people will not pay any attention to the continuing failure of his policies. The debt continues to multiply. Unemployment continues to climb into double digit numbers and in spite of speech after speech about jobs, he killed the biggest jobs maker – overriding the Congress to do so. Just sayin …

  29. truthoftherose says

    Abortion is only allowed up to a certain point and ” may have a heartbeat, it does not have a face or arms and legs. It can not see or hear and feels no pain. I was completely against abortion for years until I had to have one. it does take a toll on you physically and emotionally. I for a long time considered myself a baby killer but that is not true. I made the right decision and support the right of anyone to do so should they find themselves in such a predicament. I could have provided nothing for a child and the father wanted nothing to do with it. And welfare barely helps you get by and its hard to get on welfare. I. What kills me is the catholics who don’t believe in birth control and judge women for having abortions. Yes adoption might be an option but then you never know what kind of people are adopting the. Baby- the catholic church for instance supports and protects priests who molest the children in their churches. Recently a cinti oh woman was charged with molesting 10 of her foster children and anybody remember the special needs boy marcus feizel whose foster family beat and left tied up in a closet to die? These people say though shalt not judge lest ye be judged right? And post hundreds of tiny crosses on their perfectly manicured lawns to represent the babys who died thru. Abortion. Get the hell outta here. So don’t judge but place a constant reminder of a womans personal pain in front of your place of worship? And. Everything happens for a reason right, does that exclude abortion, is that not in gods plan and how would you know unless u r god. The golden scepter the pope uses and the gold and jewel encrusted decorum in your churches could be used to help the. Homeless and starving children that are already in america but u want to bring more children into the world to suffer through poverty. And public assistance is a joke but how many of you have ever had to get. Public assistance. You selfrighteous all knowing idiots are why I don’t believe in structured religion and jesus himself said there should be no division in the church, its in the good book, the king james version not the catholic one with all the extra books. And madeup doctrines in it. Religion is your own personal relationship with God so stop getting caught up in everyone elses dogma. God is great but the church is bs

    • as a catholic i found your comment insulting. For someone who advocates equality among women you sure do have a lot of bias against others in your post. First, adoptions don’t all lead to horrible events, thats like saying all plane flights end in crashes. Second as a Catholic i don’t just preach assistance to the poor, I HELP. I go downtown to see people living in poverty and try to see what they need to get through the day. So really you can just shut it. Third, i know many parents who cant have children and yet there you are saying “you never know what kind of people are adopting the. Baby” Boy thats judgemental or as you put it ” These people say though shalt not judge lest ye be judged right?” How bout you try it. And don’t try and quote bible quotes in relation to abortion, you really are just gonna get burned. And unless you are a theologian and skilled in ancient literature, i don’t think you have the expertise to go through it. Yes there is poverty, illness and death. THAT IS LIFE. I believe in a better world and one in which i keep fighting because i have hope. SO how bout you get off your high pedestal and HELP. Catholics are people and in fact. About 1.1 billion Catholics are in the world and growing so get used to us. If you are pro choice, im not going to go to your house with pitchforks. BUT i will work to make it so that abortion is extremely unnecessary AND that both parties can move on. Abortion is unnecessary, we the people can work to see that happen, with charities and better adoption selections and centers as well as championing parents and grandparents involvements in the process. So really enough hating, lets go for something positive, please?

  30. You are pro abortion. If you were pro choice you’d have the kid, wait till it was 18 age of consent, and then ask it the choice to be aborted or not. Fucking hypocrites.

  31. scragsma says

    The phrase “pro-choice” is meaningless unless you specify what the choice is about. When it comes to deliberately taking the life of a complete, living, healthy member of the human race for matters of convenience (which in the end is the reason for all abortions), it’s quite accurate to use the term “pro-abortion” instead of a euphemism.

  32. Being pro-choice means I support a woman’s right to decide if and when to have a family. Being pro-choice means I support a woman’s access to affordable contraceptives. Being pro-choice means I support a woman’s decision to give her own life to continue a pregnancy, or to save her own life by ending a pregnancy. Being pro-choice means that my uterus and its contents are my business and NOT the business of any middle-aged, white, male elected officials. Being pro-choice means that if, when, and how I decide to start a family is up to me and my partner, not the government. And, being pro-choice means that if I choose to continue a pregnancy, I have the necessary resources available.

  33. @Scragsma NOW who’s generalizing? ALL abortions are not performed out of “convenience” or because the unborn child is an “inconvenience.” Sometimes it is medically necessary and at
    other times it is a hard, but fair, choice, as in cases of rape and incest.
    @Daryl Fulp you are doing good deeds and that’s great. The reference of those who care for the unborn until they get here is obviously NOT aimed at people like you. But there are so many right-to-lifers that are VERY pro-gun, amped up about war, so in favor of the death penalty–If the creed is “judge not lest you be judged” and “protect the sanctity of life at all costs (and apparently by any means necessary including KILLING of those who perform abortions)then WHY does that all fly out the window when those same children need public assistance or perhaps commit a crime deemed punishable by death? If “Life is sacred” that should be consistent, don’t you think? Supporting that life when it needs a hand, not taking it when it goes astray.

  34. What if that life is puts MY life in danger during the preocess? What if that life is not a complete healthy member of the human race?! What if it comes with spina bifida, or microcephaly, slits of eyelids, cardiac malformations, Facial hypoplasia… should I keep going? What then? Who’s gonna take care of him after I’m gone?

  35. If pro-choice means supporting a woman’s right to decide when to have a family, then it also means that a woman can murder her infant or toddler. Many are citing rape, incest, and medical emergencies. Fine, I’ll give you that, but those cases are the exception, not the norm.

  36. Daryl Fulp says

    Let me see if I understand this…I am being inconsistent because I don’t support the killing of an innocent baby in its mother’s womb but do support the enforcement of a consistent death penalty for premeditated murderers to serve as both punishment and a deterrent to others. But you are consistent because you support the right to kill the innocent child but don’t support the government’s right to put to death a murderer. Does that sum things up?

    Meanwhile, I don’t care for the poor because I don’t support giving more money to the government who can’t seem to do even the most simplest of programs efficiently and cost effectively. For crying out loud, they can’t even live within a budget! (And that goes for politicians from both parties. They are incompetents who screw things up and are motivated by selfish ambition and power.) Instead, I believe that it is MY responsibility to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and stand up for the oppressed and abused.

    The typical conservative gives a higher percentage of their income to charity, including the Red Cross, United Way, Salvation Army, etc. than the typical liberal. That is because the typical conservative believes that it is their responsibility to do those things. Are their selfish and greedy conservatives? Of course…just like their are selfish and greedy liberals. (I refer you to the lifestyles, spending habits and low charitable giving of Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Alex Baldwin, Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore who do not live at all what they preach to others.) Simply put, I don’t believe that it is my right to make other people give money to others. I do believe that it is MY responsibility to give money to others. So I do, and I do it FAR more effectively than the US government. It is erroneous of the left to assume that those who do not believe in more funding for government programs do not care about the poor. It is knee-jerk and short-sighted, nothing more than the quoting of rhetoric instead of intelligent conversation. Many of us just want to see the poor cared for with efficiency and common sense.

  37. What part of “@Daryl Fulp you are doing good deeds and that’s great. The reference of those who care for the unborn until they get here is obviously NOT aimed at people like you” Did you NOT read or comprehend? I love people who not only TALK good deeds but actually do them! Yes, I asked if those who claim that they are for the sanctity of life, therefore against abortion, didn’t think they were being inconsistent if they support the death penalty. I personally don’t see ANY of these issues as black and white, there are myriad shades of gray. I am and always will be pro-choice, anti-death penalty (which by the way has been proven NOT to deter crime/murder.

  38. Stephanie says

    It’s interesting to me how the biggest debate topic over abortion is saying what you just said: everybody has the right to decide what to do with their lives. But whenever someone does choose abortion, they are effectively choosing for someone else – their baby – what happens with their life in the ultimate way. If moms who are contemplating abortion really believed that everyone has this right, they would have the baby, keep it or give it up for adoption, but they certainly wouldn’t kill it, because that would be choosing how someone else’s life will turn out.

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